Nice to use new gadgets! Yes, I don't trust the heater valve either. With R134a you do not rely on the site glass. Existing technology: R134a has been in use in the refrigeration industry for very many years, and theres so much information about the safe use of the product. R1234yf is more environmentally friendly and has a global warming potential of 4. Once you have replaced the OEM condensor with a PF unit, you will need to make custom hoses to mate with your OEM system. R12 is CFC: Even though R12 is one of the most commonly used refrigerants, it is CFC. don't know enough about the subject to explain the choices.However, a few days ago I called the dealer to see about an OEM TEV and they said something that made me feel a little bit better; the same part number superceded every application back to the '60s, and that they couldn't do that without engineering signing off on it.Still, I would feel a lot better if I could see something written officially that compared the flow characteristics and performance of r12 and 134a TEVs are concluded that they were interchangeable in automotive applications.If someone knows of such a document I would sleep much better!Walt Edited: Mon September 12, 2005 at 8:13 PM by wamcneil. bokoen1 hoi4 the great purge / meryl and maks dancing with the stars / difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve. Swapping the components isnt a herculean task, but recharging the AC is a challenge. First, differences in physical properties: 1, insoluble R12 compressor oil is used (to reduce the lubricant) 2, dissolved sealing materials are used (resulting in refrigerant leakage) 3, easy to damp (so easy to internal . This may be the source of your oil confusion. The money you will save by will pay for the R12. We consider the the various types alternative refrigerants that are illegal or not approved to be in two sectors: non-flammables and flammables. Generally this works well for the whole system. The pressure/temperature curves for R-1234yf and R-134a are very similar. Components Coils, Heaters, Motors, etc. leading to corrosion of expansion valves, capillary tube plugging, and compressor bearing . R134a is NOT less efficient than R12 Actually R134a is more efficient. R12 can move more heat than r134 so when it isn't very hot and the system isn't maxed out you wont be able to tell the difference but when its 110 out and the inside is 140 R12 will cool the cabin temp faster. _____ 2012 E350 2006 Callaway SC560 . The analysis focuses on Coefficient of Performance for . Besides, its technology has been tested and trusted. By: james smith underoath; Comments: 0 . ESP when a compressor has frozen. . You do not however need to replace all the o-rings or seals for a simple conversion, it is simply a logical thing to do when and if the time comes to work or replace certain components because of age issues. Electric fans do wear out. This means that it has a high potential of causing depletion to the ozone layer. R-134a is widely believed to be the most acceptable R12 substitute. Hopefully after you have read this entire page you will have enough information to determine which type of refrigerant is best for you. Above this temperature, the saturation pressure of R134a is higher than that of R12; below, it is lower. For example, if your system originally had 36 ounces of R12 then you multiply that by .80 and you have 29 ounce of R134a. Besides, R134a refrigerant was manufactured after R12 was banned to help reduce the harshness of the old chemical (R12) on the ozone layer. The Main change in the system is the expansion valve. It slowly gets warmer and warmer in the car, even at highway speeds. This implies that the discharge pressure of the compressor should be moderate so it can produce the refrigerants condensation in the condenser at the atmospheric temperature. When the sensor detects the refrigerant leak the sniffers lights glow and the sniffer makes a noise. If you have the work done, be sure you find a true "A/C" shop that can make up lines. If the charge is low the compressor will cycle on/off in the max AC position. It can be used applications like walk-in coolers, food and dairy display cases, domestic refrigerators, and beverage dispensers and vending machines. These efforts to balance the system can not be realized if there are problems within the a/c system, such as: poor performing compressor, dirty condenser or poor air flow through the condenser, malfunctioning expansion valve, water or air in the system, improperly operating fresh air or heat input in the climate-air mixing system. I remember I had the wrong seals and it leaked some oil, so I put some more in.Bohica - I tested the pressures. Rules governing changing from the former to the latter differ between countries. The value of carbon dioxide is 1. I'm going to check the condensor is way clean too. Carefully study the chart and compare the following: To a large extent, the choice is up to you. -The amount of R-134a needed will typically be 80-90% of the R-12 charge. If you're getting a R134a compressor, might as well finish the job - replace the receiver/dryer, flush everything else, and convert to R134a anyhow. A/C systems designed to use R-12 will cool best when charged with R-12 refrigerant. asia pacific stevie awards 2021. gin, amaretto cocktail. As per their results . It cycles on off in med (or low for that matter)Gotta tell ya. I had a 1991 BMW switched to 134a by just changing the low pressure charging valve, flushing and refilling with 134 (maybe with 10% . I recommend replacing the expansion valve when you do the swap. The substitute that we used for R-12 was the new HFC called R-134a. The only difference I can imagine would be the recharge connection. and feeds it through an expansion valve. The larger line at the expansion valve is the suction line. Autor de l'entrada Per ; Data de l'entrada calexico west port of entry hours; 12 month libor rate 2021 a difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve a difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve Refrigerators generally utilize R22, R32, or 410A-based coolants as their cooling agent. R134a systems operate at higher discharge-side pressures than R12, which can cause compressor seals to leak. Is there a difference in the expansion valve for R12 as opposed to R-134a? Moreso, it had been banned. If you find any of these conditions you will want to liquid flush (with dedicated AC flush solution) all the lines, condensers, evaporator (remove the expansion valve) before you proceed further. By using a qualified a/c shop with the proper equipment you odds are in your favor of having the job done correctly the first time. R12 and R22 are both now banned by the EPA in the United States. Then, subtract that result by 0.25 pounds to get the proper amount of R134a charge. AFAIK, there is no clutch on the engine fan on the 240D. The cure is to use the newer R134a compressors is sealing washers that are different thickness. With R-12, 30 is 28.4psi and 40 is 36.9psi, for a difference of 8.5psi. The butylcellusolve or the citrus solvent will dissolve the carcass in a few minutes. The P H and T cond,sat of the HR12 at a T oa of 40 C were higher than that of the R134a, resulting in a higher P e than that for the R134a. You'll want the expansion valve matched to whatever refrigerant you're using. Pound for pound R134a is a more efficient refrigerant than R12, however it runs at higher pressures in some aspects and therefore requires more effective condensing. It won't be optimal, though. Statisicaly your friend was lucky. It's helluva humid and hot here in north florida, and I drive around all day for my job. What is a T/C?4. What effect would it have on performance, if any? Looks like a couple of things happening here1) 80's vintage Eurocars were not "meat lockers". The crossover point is approximately at 64F. R12 is highly destructive to the earths ozone layer. Heres R12 vs. R134a pressure chart. R134a is called tetrafluoroethane (HFC). Table 1 summarizes the technical characteristics of three potential R134a alternatives. Using R134a requires that Polyolester (POE) lubricant must be used in the compressor. Most importantly, the oil used in the plant must always be compatible with the refrigerant used. Kommentare . 4) Repeat step 2, making sure it will fit. Then at least I'd know really where I am on it. R134a compressors are substituted as new to retrofit the R12 system compressor part numbers with different height sealing washers. Measure what you have now.3) Go back to the page in step one, and find the largest condensor you can put in your vehicle. Typically 5 to 6 ounces of a/c oil is adequate but this may vary depending upon the car. of refrigerant insulation tape. As an example, let's say the R12 charge specification is listed at 2 lbs. The common problem when converting from R12 to R134a is lack of knowledge or equipment. -------------------------"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest." Replied by Rich928 on topic R12 or R134a. If your a/c system is empty/low on refrigerant, if your system has a leak or if you need to open the system, then now is the time to decide which refrigerant you want to use. 2022 nba 2k22 starting a fashion label signing the designer, a difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve, 2020 white paper of the church of pentecost, Chime Mobile Check Deposit Funds Availability, Why Does James Kill Donald In The Vanishing, nba 2k22 starting a fashion label signing the designer. The mechanical fan & clutch should be checked as well. gital control scheme. There is a lot of differences between the R12 and the R134a fittings, you can't mistake them. R12 and R22 are both now banned by the EPA in the United States. There are significant differences between R12, R134a, and R513A, which must be considered when handling, processing, applying, or retrofitting with these refrigerants. 05-25-2017 02:14 AM. Nick, I hear you - there maybe nothing to do here. I cleaned the evap as best I could, if that is what you are getting at. Also, they are mostly used in refrigeration and automotive air conditioning systems. This is because R134a. R-134A has a slightly lower pressure at evaporator temperatures (30-40 degrees), but R-134a also has a much higher pressure at condenser temperatures (120-150 degrees). by | Jun 21, 2022 | what is the most accurate latin translator | burlington iowa arrests | Jun 21, 2022 | what is the most accurate latin translator | burlington iowa arrests All pre-97 XJs use systems with the same basic operating principle, although the parts do change a bit. Paul -------------------------1983 Mercedes 240D on R12 and WVO!1192 Mercedes 300D 2.5 R134a1993 Toyota Pickup converted to R134a. Later model cars that come with 134A will have 134A only connectors. Bookmarks: Digg; del . R134a refrigerant fittings are different size. We are an automotive mechanic blog that helps mechanics and car users to find the most recent and accurate technical and repair information for their cars. However, you can convert R12 to R134a by yourself, save money and keep all the tools purchased. . Its among the greenhouse gases and will keep adding the current problem of heat not leaving the earths atmosphere. R12 was once used in many air conditioning units as a refrigerant or cooling agent. R12 was once used in many air conditioning units as a refrigerant or cooling agent. R12 is used in several applications like low temperature, medium temperature, and high-temperature applications. I have just bought gauges. We sometimes use a relay switched from the compressor clutch to run fans. That is a good thing. R-134a can actually cool better than R-12 in a well designed R-134a system as it has better thermoconductive properties, but all the high pressure issues have to be addressed.But even when these cars were brand new, didn't cool worth a damned, recall almost dying in one in Las Vegas at the time, but a good way to lose weight with gallons of perspiration pouring out, just don't let that drip on the seats, that is inappropriate. If you still find it difficult to use R134a in a home AC system, you can check out a comparison of R12 vs R134a fittings to know the refrigerant that best fits the AC system. Jun 17, 2011. Some say that a chemical reaction can harm the A/C very badly as R134a reacts with mineral oil in some way. A capacity curve is shown in figure 2 for relative capacity of R134a vs. R12 for evaporating temperatures from 0F to 50F. Use strips of foam to couple the two heat exchangers if necessary.B. I've got a ball valve I'm going to put in the coolant line before the coolant goes through the firewall to the core. The difference really shows up on the high side. A final difference is that most (though not all) R-1234yf cars will have a Suction Line Heat Exchanger. The best oil that runs well with R134a is PAG oil or Polyalkylene Glycol. The sticker typically has a place to note the amount of refrigerant used, the type of oil and amount of oil, the technicians sign off or name and the date of the conversion. Blows pretty hard on full. R134a refrigerant is about 10% less efficient in moving heat than R12! However, it was found to be a very bad gas for the environment. Since the hose is the stock hose, you cannot tell what refrigerant is inside. 4 Stars & Up & Up; 3 Stars & Up & Up; 2 Stars & Up . ambulance tailgate conversion Its cylinders are colored white. Super heats are so close, it should not be a major concern.-------------------------The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government. Also, since R134a uses synthetic oil, it has a low global warming potential, unlike R12 which uses mineral oil which poses a negative environmental impact. It runs between the condenser outlet, receiver/drier unit and expansion valve at the firewall. Also the new quick connect fittings for the high & low side. We, the Rxmechanic team, have presented a well-detailed comparison of R134a vs. R12. This is due to many facts: R134a refrigerant is about 10% less efficient in moving heat than R12! I'm just trying to help you avoid headaches in the long run. If it splashes inside the eye, it could lead to a serious eye problem. The Wikipedia explanation for expansions valves cited in Frank's thread says that the gas inside the bulb in the metering valve is the same as the refrigerant in the system. R134a was selected as a replacement refrigerant for R12 because R12 contains chlorine and has a major effect to ozone layer depletion. They can be mounted quite easy,and there is a mounting kit that helps to hang it. If you you dont have the free time to play then you are better off to pay a technician. Or is there always room for improvement, the more the merrier. This is not to say that one of these small retro-fit kits cant be used, however to be used wisely. Operating Pressure/Temperature Differences The pressure/temperature curves for R-1234yf and R-134a are very similar. Well, I'm not sure it is 'fine' - it doesn't cool very well in 95F weather. I had to vaccum the system for 2 hours and recharge 4 oz of PAG oil plus 36 oz of 134A freon (3 cans). Only show this user. The typical scenario here is when the car owner buys an inexpensive retro-fit kit from the local auto parts store. GWP is a measurement of Greenhouse Gases and their effect on Global Warming. A discussion of the relationship between valve capacities and superheat set-tings can be found in Bulletin 10-9. A slow loss of cooling at city speeds is usually related to condensor capacity & airflow issues.You could improve the cooling capacity by replacing the condensor with a high effeciency parallel flow unit. Is there a graph? You'll get marginally better performance out of the change as the expansion valve is matches the refrigerant characteristics. Expansion Valve. The exact amount will vary with each car. 1) Look Here at the available sizes of PF condensors.2) Go look at your vehicle's condensor & mounting. Then again, there are two different expansion valves. Skin contact: If the R134a (liquid) comes in contact with your skin, it could cause a burn. A slow loss of cooling at city speeds is usually related to condensor capacity & airflow issues. You do not need to replace the expansion valve in most cases. I dont know why the cost difference between compressors is so huge, though. Yes it will work with either Refrigerant! So if you car has a large amount of rubber hose, such as a 40 feet with the 911, then you will be re-charging the system often and that is expensive no matter which refrigerant you use. James10952001. The newer valves and switches will work with both refrigerants. (On firewall where A/C lines go into cab.) Below are the major differences between R134a and R12: The chemical composition of R12 and R134a differ. R-401b is the mixture by weight of 61% R22, 11% R-152a and 28% of R-124. This works when the R12 charge specification is listed in pounds. Questions About Becoming A Professional Member? After the optimum refrigerant charge is determined the car should be test driven to check for performance of the system. Make sure visiually that no large gaps exist that would allow the air to bypass the condensor on the way to the radiator.B. The MB chart shows 360 psi with R12 in some conditions. One thing at a time here, and slowly, the knee is not up to jumping around like I used to at the moment. Failure to abide by the EPA regulations can result in expensive fines for either you or your service technician. ~ Mahatma Gandhi, Gandhi, An Autobiography, M. K. Gandhi, page 446. R134a has a smaller molecule than R12 so R134a will leak out sooner than R12. With the knowledge of the differences, youll be able to draw a comparison between R12 vs R134a efficiency. Trinary Pressure Switch $ 39.99. ~ Mahatma Gandhi, Gandhi, An Autobiography, M. K. Gandhi, page 446. About four or five years ago, I guy with an MB came here with the same problem, that tread was over six pages long. Replace the drier with a drier that has a desiccant that is R134a compatible, use new R134a o-rings. I put in a new (not reman) compressor (R4 I believe it is) in my merc 240D, new drier, new expansion valve, new o-rings, nylog. Its duty is to convert toxic gasses produced by the engine into A brake cleaner is a powerful solvent for cleaning dirt from the brakes and other car components. Add to cart. "Jerky Locker" LMAO I am using that one in the future!Florida = BUGS! In short, NO! R134a and R12 are both refrigerants used in vehicle air conditioning systems. Temp switch works the aux fan. In most cases, the systems used have varied components, designs, and service ports. Stability: RR12 doesnt disintegrate even under extreme operating conditions. It is perhaps possible to locate a unit with a company that purchases close out or distressed merchandise. The primary function of the design engineer is to make things difficult for the fabricator and impossible for the serviceman. #4. Then when it is switched off for a few minutes and then back on, the air cools again. Some 1993 and older R12 systems aren't as 'compatible' as you'd think to switch over. Big . ). This refers to BTU's (heat) moved per pound of refrigerant moved. Bad Car A/C Expansion Valve Symptoms. R12 contains a chemical called chlorine that destroys the ozone layer, thereby causing potential environmental risk. R 134A is designed for the high demands of an automobile AC and cannot be used on refrigerators due to pressure differences. Bohica, I appreciate your help with this. Does it matter - assuming both are new & uncontaminated? Its chemical symbol is CCl2F2. In 1994 they switched from R-12 to R-134a. He started writing automotive articles to share his garage experience with car enthusiasts and armature mechanics. J.Harris said: Or if you want to do it like they do in Mexico you can use propane, it's an excellent refrigerant but highly flammable. Thomas Jefferson, Thanks,OK, I'm starting to feel a little better about it. The cure is to use the newer R134a compressors is sealing washers that are different thickness. . What is needed? compressor, condenser, evaporator and expansion valve are specifically designed for use with R134a. At the moment, the ac is acting up - will work fine for about 15 minutes and then slowly the vent temperatures rise until the compressor switches off. 5. Its highest value is 1. The evap is hard to get at. Pray I can let some oil out of the compressor without losing my precious R12. We say generally because the vehicle manufacturer may have a formula already worked out for the R134a conversion process. You do not need to replace every o-ring in the system, but if you happen to open a connection that has an o-ring you should replace the old o-ring with one that is compatible with R134a and lubricate the o-ring with ac oil. 42 (at best) w/ 134A in 2000 isuzu trooper. When the ambient air temps get above 80F the gauge readings can run a bit higher on the high side and lower on the low side when using R134a. Is there a difference between a R134a expansion valve and an R12 TXV? Hot coolant migrates up through the core by convection (is that the word? The catalytic converter is an essential component of your car's emission system that helps save the environment from harmful emissions. However, theyre still used in older plants, systems, and the automotive industry. But as there's not a big difference, people say you can suffice with either. Even though their common major function is to cool the system, they have many differences. So if the TXV is OK, and the too much oil situation is not a big problem, then I wonder why the compressor is switching off after about 15 minutes of cooling? and recharged with mineral oil and 2.2 lbs R12. A Lot of the fins are bent, especially at the top. In no particular order, here's what I've found out regarding answering the questions posed so far:Fonebone - It is definitely an R4 compressor (they left the c off the front and the p off the end, i.e. In a car ac, using this type of freon 20 years ago was difficult. Below are the major differences between R134a and R12: Chemistry The chemical composition of R12 and R134a differ. Your old hoses of course will not fit. Large temperature difference between expansion valve inlet and outlet oReplace expansion valve Air . Even with proper fan operation, missing seals & air dams can effect condensor effeciency. In sum, R12 has done more bad than good. Sense ells no existirem. Before R12 was replaced with R134a in 1995, it was mostly used in trucks and cars. The Wikipedia explanation for expansions valves cited in Frank's thread says that the gas inside the bulb in the metering valve is the same as the refrigerant in the system. Spray it deep, and let it sit for a few minutes. The global warming potential of R134a is 1430. The old compressor used R12 and the new unit will be R134a. Miscibility with oil: R12 can be mixed with the compressor oil no matter the operating condition. "Howdy, Folks!" The car never overheats, if that has any import. It is mixed with the freon for the most part, and does accumulate in all components in small amounts. From memory, I put in at least 8 ounces of oil, probably around 10 ounces in there. At this time you can still find R12, but, because it is no longer produced, availability is limited to current inventories and the price per pound is greater than R134a. I have a laser temp reader, and it says the temps going into the condensor are up to 160F - coming out it is always around 110 or so. Though - the valve for a 1991 says R12 on it, and for a 1994, it says R-134a. Though you can purchase 12 or 16 ounce cans of R134a from local retailers it is very difficult to measure out the correct amount into your system. Is it exponential, squared? difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve why is miles raney not on homestead rescue June 21, 2022. manila mayor candidates 2022 I think the way to go here is1. You may need to adjust the valve in a bit to get desired superheat. Bookmarks: Digg; del . Back in that era, my business associates drove those things, brand new, and maybe I should take my Cadillac instead, no they wouldn't be caught dead in a Caddy, people of our esteem should be driving an MB. It's actually a reaction with chlorine in the mineral oil that may have been absorbed and leftover from the old R-12. Ensure you contact a professional mechanic to do the work for you so you dont end up incurring more costs for yourself. The reason is that the vehicles, for instance, manufactured currently configure the engine for R1234yf refrigerant, making no provision for replacement. Thread starter goldNSX; Start date 1 August 2009; Tagged . What is the refrigerant property involved that has caused this? difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve. You can use the R134a retrofit capacity chart for this purpose. We suggest dumping the old refrigerant oil in a clean container and inspect the oil for sludge or waxing (old oil that has gelled) and contamination (metal particles). Discussion in 'Technical' started by Jsarnold, May 25, 2012. The problem with not being an expert is that you don't know what is important and what's not. At the time I thought nothing of it, but now I am thinking maybe that is contributing to the system not working as well as it could. Very interesting! shown for the parallel flow, aluminum condenser that is listed. If the system was upgraded by a professional it should have an upgrade sticker. Whenever its exposed to the environment, it changes to a gas. It is made up of carbon, hydrogen, and fluorine. I don't know where it is getting the switch off command, or why the vent temp drops steadily. A capacity curve is shown in figure 2 for relative capacity of R134a vs. R12 for evaporating temperatures from 0F to 50F. Just leave it alone for now. . The flammables have hydrocarbons. However, R134a is better than R12. You can use this space to go into a little more detail about your company. The ARPA Zone/Open Membership Discussion Forums. As noted, measure up front as best as you can to get as close to the aftermarket dim. With new R12 no longer being manufactured, the market price soared to $100/pound. When I compare parts, 93 uses one part number and 94 has a different part number. Crap! If ambient is 90 (today) and the output of the condensor is 110, that's pretty good isn't it? Stopleak is also risky. Figure 2 shows the different phases and pressures the refrigerant . Rxmechanic.com is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for website owners to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. For those of you who are considering what the cost is for R12 you can think of it this way: Dont go out to dinner this weekend. Yep, definately not a meat locker. George Bray on Wed August 31, 2005 5:03 PM I believe the optimum supercool setting will vary slightly between an expansion valve for an R12, as compared to R134a, system. Make sure to get the R12 EXP valve if that is the way you go. In a comparison between R12 vs R134a vs R1234yf, R1234yf will pass as the best refrigerant. R1234yf. Shorting the plug for the refrigerant switch should run the fan when the compressor is on. The symbol implies that R12 is a composite of carbon, chlorine, and fluorine. Given two identical vehicles, each with the same weighted amount of refrigerant, the vehicle with the R134a has the capability to remove more heat (measured in btus) from the vehicle than the same type of vehicle using the same amount of R12. Its not that difficult but the procedures of evacuation, charging and testing should be done by a licensed a/c technician that is experienced with R134a and your particular car. In practice this means that the car can overheat and the aux fan will stay off! Fitting a PF condensor is not rocket science, but it requires some planning. 4.3 out of 5 stars 491. You will be fine with a 134a-compatible TXV running R12.
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