Never once, have I ever thought that these folks were not saved. Mhler taught at Tbingen and Munich. What scientists call the laws of nature we call normal operations of the sovereign God. Im pretty sure that Calvin doesnt either, but Ill check on it. As Ive said on older threads, back when I was considering becoming a Calvinist and began lurking at their forums and perusing their sites, and I began e mailing them asking them if they could explain Calvinism for me and clear up some confusion I had, this happened a lot. I think it means that God is aware of every molecule (which He created, of course), and that none of them escapes His will. I have gone through some crisis of the faith in which I was unsure of what I understoodbut I never, ever stopped believing in Jesus. I know that it started spontaneously on another thread, but you could have said enough.. Sovereign Grace Ministries Yet why do I still love Jesus, the Bible and read so many Christian authors? Does not a little yeast leaven the whole batch? for what its worth, im the product of many generations of energetic, committed Christian people, several career missionaries to asia, and church since day 1. The response to an authoritarian and oppressive environment is not to create another one where Calvinism is not tolerated. Ill have to look that one up. God ordains everything and man has a degree of free will how can these both be true? But, if, during an online conversation about Calvinism, someone writes that the discussion is disturbing to him/her, certain questions arise beyond the obvious point that its wrong to attack that person: Should the conversation be halted? First of all we have to understand that what is affirmed- that God ordains whatsoever comes to pass from all eternity- is not unique to Reformed theology. , @ Hester: Likewise, Hester, likewise! When I first discovered Reformed theology, I was a student at Dallas Theological Seminary. A person who is happy (if that word lacks depth for anyone, you could substitute hopeful, optimistic, joyful, grateful) can affect others with it, 3 generations worth (ie- someone with happiness holds a door for someone carrying a heavy load, that person is then affected positively and they in turn affect someone else with their bolstered happiness). Would really like to read Against Calvinism, as Im still sorting through the havoc that Calvinism caused in my own spiritual life (or, at least, the version of it I latched on to). And of course, that is just RC Sproul, though I do know this idea of primary and secondary causes has been around for a while and is not primarily a Calvinist idea. Any benefit we get from His death (i.e., salvation) is great, but if we act like we are too focused on salvation, we are selfish and may not even be saved.. Do not expect to win the argument, no matter how logical and "winsome" you are. I just checked my Google News and there was an Associated Press story marking 20 years since Al Mohler took over SBTS. I trust him because I understand his loving nature. What Julie Anne is saying is also elaborated by Christa Brown in chapter 46 of her book This Little Light as well as here: http://www.stopbaptistpredators.org/ravagedfaith.html. In other words, the Calvinists want you to agree that YOU have a FINITE mind and could be wrong. Advocate & Solicitor of the High Court of Malaya. But when I look at others, I take a view that is closer to Arminian: that they have a responsibility to respond to the Gospel that is before them. And if you reject the doctrine as it has been historically understood (like the guy at my church), then at least you are wrestling with a time tested theology, not a new fad, and wrestling with time tested theology can only help you grow as a Christian. He shouldnt be let out of his cage yet. Some of the resources that have helped me to be a non calvinist are. Quotes about calvinism And one of the scribes came up and heard them disputing with one another, and seeing that he answered them well, asked him, Which commandment is the most important of all? Jesus answered, The most important is, Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one. But, knowing that this type of discussion triggers upsetting thoughts, why did you encourage it? I dont want to convince anyone of a certain brand of Christianity. It is counterproductive. They want pure milk easy to digest, soothing, warms their tummy, meets their needs, gives comfort, nourishes them and helps them grow. My young son-in-law has just been diagnosed with stage 4 cancer. Grew up in Arlington.Christian (immigrant) family. Im a musician in a band the skill level I have now is directly proportional to how many times Ive absolutely made a total fool of myself in front of people. No one is trying to convince him otherwise. This one may sound like ad hominem at first blush, but I mean it more as an observation of the . This is such a profound conversation and so close to my heart! I cant get there either on the basis of the argument (I have heard it all and tried)., I get where you are coming from within your paradigm. Somehow He organizes His Will and human free will in accomplishing His ends. And the reason I identify that way is not because I want to convert people, but because I just didnt like all the hatred spewed out at the belief system. John Calvin, French Jean Calvin or Jean Cauvin, (born July 10, 1509, Noyon, Picardy, Francedied May 27, 1564, Geneva, Switzerland), theologian and ecclesiastical statesman. He got into this thing about to truly let someone have free will, not only do you have to permit them to disobey / do evil, but there has to be an opportunity to do good, too. Ed was not so big on doctrine. You might argue that with only a little bacteria, you might only get sick, but not die. I have the utmost respect for my long-time regular reader and pastor who happens to be Calvinist, Craig Vick, who posted the following comment on my blog article where I was struggling with the doctrinal/abuse confusion: For what its worth, from now on Ill make sure I think of your story and the stories of others before I express my theology. No one likes to see (what they think is) a good doctrine maligned, especially if it leaves the real culprit at large. Please, please, please, keep us posted on your son in law. Why? Can they wrestle with it on their own? Each Christmas, I am thankful that God works in mysterious ways. Im not doubting what you say, but PLEASE (and this goes for everyone) try to document this type of thing. Conceding, of course, that this was an English translation, not Latin or French. This, of course, is totally irrelevant. Craig Keener 25. . OK, but if you choose to do evil instead of good, I mean. However, they are limited, just as we are. Most churches teach Arminian theology. Unfortunately, to some, that means I may not even be a Christian. I figured (maybe arrogantly, but I prefer to think of it as optimism) that I could correct a few misconceptions I saw and then the whole discussion could just go away. I do hope when I sad that comment, I said illogical TO ME, as in general I hesitate to call other people views illogical. Actually Ive always thought of the hyper crowd in any area as the ones who want to get in your face and tell everyone how if they are not with them they are against them. I think so, but Im not quite sure what youre asking. The hard part about this is I dont think these folks even realize what they are doing. I had found the light. 8. whats so complicated about that? I read CS Lewis, Francis Schaeffer and many others. Thank you, Deb. However, when a woman has been abused for years by the men in her life, its going to be natural that she lashes out at men and not feel safe around them. Just a few thoughts for you. Systematic Theology Comparison Chart. Olson coined the label "Pannenberg's Principle" forWolfhart Pannenberg's argument (1969) that God's deity is his rule "The divinity of God and the reign of God in the world are inseparable."[6]. The guy wearing glasses in the video gave an interesting explanation, though he chose to use the Fall in the Garden, rather than a more contemporary example. B. Warfield said, "The Calvinist, in a word, is the man who sees God. And I *know* that I sounded every bit as naive as those kids in the article. I had Wade Burelson come to my little rinky-dink blog and debate me on my turf. But something has changed in the last number of years. Why isnt it simple, like the works of John Owen and Jonathan Edwards? You can find this sort of material by googling for it. We are. I think that desiring a nice complete and in itself non-contradictory theological system is our undoing. Your blog has been extremely helpful to me as well, in sorting many things out. . So, I disagree with your choice of word infantilised because in my example Im talking about giving someone hurting exactly what they need (emotionally/spiritually) at the precise time they need it just like breastmilk. The fervor of thismovement reminds me of theearly, heady days oftheJesus movement. And those who might still reject it, might also be rejecting it for the wrong reasons and miss out on some important wrestling that could help them grow. He sets a great example and I appreciate his ability to charitable in discussing beliefs that others dont believe or accept. I may post a little bit of my testimony and how I came to by position of being a non calvinist but for now just wanted to say thanks for this post and for all that you 2 do and for Wade as well and e-church! @ JeffB: I appreciate the dialog. who needs systems & neat little boxes? I didnt really love Him then, either, He always seemed so distant. 2) Everything that happens is scripted by God and is good for us. In any case, though, youre right. I sure love the practical side of things. Pg 81 We are very clear that we do not see men as the only abusers nor abuse inherently a gender issue. 16th-century Calvinist and Reformed theologians, 17th-century Calvinist and Reformed theologians, 18th-century Calvinist and Reformed theologians, 19th-century Calvinist and Reformed theologians, 20th-century Calvinist and Reformed theologians, 21st-century Calvinist and Reformed theologians, 12th-century Eastern Orthodox theologians, 13th-century Eastern Orthodox theologians, 14th-century Eastern Orthodox theologians, 15th-century Eastern Orthodox theologians, 16th-century Eastern Orthodox theologians, 17th-century Eastern Orthodox theologians, 18th-century Eastern Orthodox theologians, 19th-century Eastern Orthodox theologians, 20th-century Eastern Orthodox theologians, 21st-century Eastern Orthodox theologians, Roman Catholic theologians by nationality, List of Catholic philosophers and theologians, https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Lists_of_Christian_theologians&oldid=1083295880, Lists of theologians and religious studies scholars, Short description is different from Wikidata, Pages using sidebar with the child parameter, Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License 3.0, Eastern Orthodox theologians by nationality, This page was last edited on 18 April 2022, at 03:54. 96:3; John 17:1 ). What I DO think is clear is that God can use evil for good and he works all things for good of those with faith in him. At the Spiritual Sounding Board blog, in the threads about Calvinism, I saw Cals on occasion contradicting each other. CALVIN! You can even put your feet up I dont mind! It is disingenuous for anyone to rebut the Calvinist doctrine that God is the author of sin unless this was a point where the WCF and Calvin disagreed (and I dont think it was). Its like asking the old question: Can God create a rock to heavy for Him to throw?
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